Saturday, February 16, 2008

Islam, Nuclear War, Civilization; PART I

The following is a continuation of a debate/discussion between Andre and myself on his Forum at this link

Khanverse, explain yourself

We are discussing who the conspirators are, how far back it goes, some possible spiritual solutions and the viability of Civilizations.

His words are indented in quotes, my responses follow the quotes.

Yes, they hide behind the Jewish religion like these people hide behind all religions, and all other institutions of power. No one has said that the Jewish elite are "scapegoated" (though the Jewish population often is), merely that they are a part of a machine.

That's not what you and your homie have been saying. You've said many times that the "jewish managers" as you call them, have been put in front of us by "them" deliberately so we'll "blame the jews." Look at the policy makers in all these western countries and say that's just a conspiracy against 'jews' by 'them' and it's so we'll "blame the jews" so "they" can hide.

You haven't listened to him. He explains who they are. He doesn't usually talk about "royalty", but that seems to be a favorite strawman of yours when it comes to this subject. He talks about a priesthood, and aristocratic bloodlines, that have always acted through the Mystery religion, which is presently manifesting in the massively variant incarnations of Freemasonry and ultimately is the religion behind all religions. You should listen to the man before you attack him. One or two shows is not enough to understand the subject matter, it is too complicated. I am certain you "don't have time for that" - well then don't attack him

Fine, I'll admit I've only listened to about 7 or so of his hour long shows. Everythin has an opportunity cost, you know that. But, seeing as how he's your favorite and a slight on him alone can catalyze a several paragraph attack from you, can you please tell me who is he naming, individuals and families, as belonging to this "preisthood?"

Give me some and any link to the audio in which he makes the claims would be absolutely appreciated.

Well, it's wintertime man, and I need some cash for that. I am working all the time. There are still plans.

Good luck. You know I'm a cheerleader.

I don't believe in evolution. We are what we are. Each individual is to evolve spiritually, living in his natural environment. There is absolutely no reason to believe man was "made" to "advance" toward anything.

It doesn't matter whether or not you believe evolution occurs. Every moment you blink, something, somewhere in the universe has changed. That's all evolution is. Every 7 years you regenerate new cells that make you look completely different. That's evolution as well. Closing yourself off and saying nuh uh isn't going to stop it. Every day someone, somewhere comes up with a new way of doing things or makes something new or makes a process more efficient... Doesn't make a bit of difference whether Andre in Ohio whines about it or not.

We were never meant to be subjugated. This is a fact. "Scientific progress" only exists in large societies, and large societies always end up subjugating the individual, simply because there is no other way to keep people from killing each other in the completely unnatural urban setting.

So you're decrying the scale of what occurs? There wasn't genital mutilation in tribal, 'primitive', cultures? No war? No sacrifice to the gods? No one man with 50 women and 200 hundred children? No homosexuality? No pagan worship? All those things are natural for man buy flying on a plane is 'evil' and 'unnatural'?

Whatever dude. There is no civilization that was ever good. There was a divine utopia before any of this crap. It is the nature of the psychopath to conquer his surroundings. It is the nature of man to exist peacefully within them

When? Before language? Back when everything was an undifferentiated whole? Back during the time of collective consciousness and no soul/conscience? What about mankind's animal stage makes you reminisce?

Your enemy is change. And change is hardwired into the universe. It was not like everything was the same then all of a sudden the mean, preisthood, "they" decided to shake shit up.

That's wonderful. They look happy. So do these people:

Well DBS has been caught twice now employing Israeli military...


wow, that was funny as hell. I have no attachment to DBS like you do with Watt yet DBS has exposed a hell of a lot more criminals than Watt has with a fraction of the promotion and constant lies about him such as the one posted above. And I don't defend him, I just promote some of his work, I think he's a boneheaded egotist drunkard myself sometimes.

More attempts to degrade and belittle? Who would have thunk it?

Touche. Your modus operandi. That medicine taste bitter, no?

The Rothschilds profited at Waterloo. I thought we all knew that.

But werent they just workin for the 'aristocratic preisthood' like good little pawns?

They are all cousins. Get a book about the Norman invasion. No historian denies this. But it is insane to believe these people took over Europe without an army, and for some reason let the ancient rulers who trace their lineages back to Babylon keep their titles, and everyone just gets along great. This is not historical. But you are stuck on it, and won't let go, because it forms some basis for your ideology. There is no reason to discuss it, it is basically arguing over religion. Anyone who reads this can make their own call.

You've got an ideology of your own made up largely of your heros Jones and Watt. The only ideology I follow is Islam and you woefully misunderstand both the orthodox version and the one I follow, which is creepy since you're a 'muslim' (or were)

Yeah, technology was created to oppress us. It has never done anyone any good, ever. This is very simple and plain for anyone to see. If you can't, it is your indoctrination and belief in the system that is familiar to you that blinds you. Everything was better before any of this existed. Period.

Technology was never created. It has always existed. It is not an end. It's a means to an end. It isn't intrinsically good or bad however I will concede that it has been used more for negative than positive in the past century. This era was also prophecized about. God simply opened up SOME secrets of the universe for man to explore with his endowed capacity, mostly to spread the message of the Messiah, peacefully, to forever eradicate the claim that Islam was spread by the sword.

Also, talking about "technology" and "self-sufficiency" in the same breath is oxymoronic. Think on that.

Wow. How about that right there is MORONIC? I know you hate when I mention this but this is relevent so I'm gonna go ahead. The present Khalifa of our community was an agricultural engineer/scientist prior to this position.

Check it out:

First experiments had revealed that wheat could not grow in Ghana. But Sahibzada Mirza Masroor Ahmad Sahib continued relentlessly. Another Ahmadi Muslim, Mr Qasim Ahmad, joined him in this series of experiments. The efforts of this team of Ahmadi agriculturalists finally paid dividends. The first successful experiment of planting, growing and nurturing wheat as an economic crop in Ghana was exhibited at an international trade fair and the results were submitted to the Ministry of Agriculture of Ghana. It stands as a great credit to his personal efforts in these experiments that successive presidents of Ghana have commended the Ahmadiyya Muslim community for these highly successful experiments which revolutionized the country’s economy and paved the way for self sufficiency

So by not acceptin the belief that wheat could not grow, he utilized TECHNOLOGY to do scientific EXPERIMENTS, which eventually led to a solution, which paved the way for SELF-SUFFICIENCY for a country.

"Yea, that's EVIL. The aristocratic preisthood sent him to do just that!"

you can read more about him here:

As far as getting rid of the central banks, I am assuming you still believe in the institution of money, but are probably not silly enough to talk about the "gold standard".

Money is a means of exchange. Again not intrinsically good or bad but it must not have value in and of itself, nor should its production be monopolized, nor should it be created from thin air, nor should it operate on usury.

Barter would still work, so would sticks like they had in Britian for centuries before central banking.

Anyway, you are proposing a world governmental system?

Nope. Anarchy tempered with wide adherence to Divine Law OUT OF VOLITION.

Read up on how Umar (the second khalifa of the first Caliphate) ran everything, you'll enjoy it, it's enlightening stuff...

Europe certainly was 98% slaves

link? Keep in mind that's not a disagreement, just asking for a reference to validate a claim.

They were bought and sold with the land. Moving into the 1700's they were all working in factories and dying at the age of 25. It was not good at all. Never was.

Europe & the West isn't even the majority of mankind. Although it's the place ripe with subjugation and subversion. Go back 300 years, what was happening then? Why? What are some names of those responsible for that?

Chalking up everything to man's creation of cities and metropoli is an oversimplification unjustified by your esteemed intelligence.

Throughout history wherever there have been stone structures there has been a tiny elite group ruling over the masses of slaves. This is the issue here, Khan. Whether it is the Jews or whoever else doing it, what could possibly be the difference? We need to deal with the fact that all thoughout history, human beings have been slaves. That is the issue.

History is ripe with examples that don't fit this gloomy dark picture you've indoctrinated yourself with. You're repeating Watt in text form.

Maybe Maitraya can give it to us now?

Theosophic new-age play on "messiah?"

Nah, they just bit Buddha and fronted like they had something special.

Krishnamurti gave them the finger after they pulled him out the village and made him their star.

You want a world government ruled by God.

LMAO@world government. You trying to fool the lazy lemming with semantics?

Yeah, that'd be fine.

Time travel is not real though, Stephen Hawking is a joke, and this is where we are. I think we need total decentralization of everything, and we need to retreat into nature. This is probably not possible without massive cataclysm. So everything is very ominous.

I agree with all that, it's only ominous if it is to be resisted. Cataclysms are inevitable and CYCLICAL... should happen in your lifetime if you choose to stick around long enough.

It would be all good and well if God decides to come make some heaven on earth. I would support that. But we must be realistic.

You can't see what I see. that's not a problem though.

Things are opening up accordin to prophecy but you laugh at that kinda stuff the same way the atheists have tried to programmed us to scoff.

Yeah, saw that coming. The posterboy for the "peaceful Islamic dictatorship". I don't know that much about it, but I am pretty sure everything had fallen but Grenada by 1100-something

There are pockets of this almost everywhere from 700-1700...

We really need to study when the advent of written language occured and why because that will explain a lot about history and the nature of man.

Anyhow, I have a hard time believing it was this heavenly place, especially considering the way it is marketed, but I do believe that Islam provides the legal outline for a society most likely to keep a ruling elite from establishing total dominance. You know Andalusia was cut off from the empire though, and that was the only reason it wasn't locked down like the rest of the Muslim world generally was.

Vagueries, ambiguities and more semantics.. Just study it to critique it if you have to, why assume? I mean I respect those who at least shout "dhimmi" in that they went and learned (or were taught) that word and what it supposedly meant.

Honestly though, I couldn't live under Sharia law. Have you read it? I can agree that this type of structure is needed to run a massive society, but wouldn't you rather just be free?

Sharia is for willing participants, if you had followed what I've been saying you would have seen that. When sharia was enacted people who stole would FEEL GUILTY and return what they stole and turn themselves in AND ASK FOR PUNISHMENT, such is the nature of man when volutarily ruled by Divine Law. Besides sharia is not a form of governance, take the time to digest through this:

No one's gonna stop that if that's what someone wants. Islam is about peace, not conquering. I'm thinking if you're that dude two centuries from now you're feeling kinda awkward and you just conform, not that you're gonna be forced to at spear-point.

Doesn't that make more logical sense?

What? Naked hunter-gatherer tribal pagan worshipping nomadic cultures?

Not to me. Islam doesn't fight those things physically anyway. Ideas that are true spread with holistic, intrinsic momentum.

This is where your entire belief system is most obviously utterly erroneous.

They would not risk staging a nuclear war. It just wouldn't make any sense. Why would they do it? The whole world is already completely locked down.

So then why microchip everyone and have microchipped slaves running the most complicated data-mining ever on it if everything is on lock down?

Have you not paid attention to Pike? 3 world wars. What about Freedman and Fagan? 3 world wars. You think a few missiles and bunker busters will convince mankind to submit to "them?" You think they are naive enough to believe he will without total destructive war? Have you not read their plans?

The biggest thing we have on our side is their arrogance in thinking they can do these things. Why not stage it? How else can you get the muslims to bow to you?

Actually, I think one time you said you believed the show about Russia and China being enemies of the west. This is silly, as we all know, communism was set up by the west, and there is no reason they would ever have given up control. Plus Russia and China are both UN member states, China being the "model state". And I know you think these people running things are "drunk at the wheel", but to suggest that we would have sent all our production capacity to China without knowing for a fact that they were totally on board with us is just silly. Even if in some fantasy world this could all be true, there would never be a nuclear war, because China could just stop sending goods and completely shut down everything in a matter of weeks.

They aren't ready for that yet. I'm sure people in Germany and Britian didn't think they were natural enemies circa 1895. You haven't been paying attention to 20th century history if you don't think they set up huge blocs to fight one another and reap the benefits like parasites of all warring parties.

Think about it. This is not complicated. Explain to me why there would be a nuclear war. I am totally baffled by this, as I know quite a bit about things, and I see nothing close to a logical way of explaining this scenario you have laid out

They need a 3rd world war. Wars subjugate populations. They are the best means of destroying humans (depopulation) They cause depressions, famine, huge problems for generations. They re-structure the world, they have people clamoring for solutions and peace. They enrich the financiers and consolidate power, they make humans more acquiesent to dictators.

Damn, you're making me sound like a psychopath. Tell me why NOT a nuclear war. How can you bring that type of destruction without nukes given proliferation and modern warfare? Israel bombed lebanon for a WHOLE FUCKING MONTH and only killed 1200 or so innocent humans. Any other option is totally inefficient. And if you're not aware of the 3 world wars model then you've been "drunk at the wheel"

You are thinking about it the wrong way. It is about efficiency. Read the Republic. That is their handbook

You read it first. Then I'll re-read it.

I see no evidence to support what you are claiming, and I am not ready to adopt this on faith alone. It's fine if you want to, that is your right as a sovereign individual, but I fail to see how you can expect anyone else to.

No one is forcing you to but if you think spiritual progress can only happen after "evidence" then you're living one elaborate lie. Faith is where the ladder of spiritual progress begins. But do you, I'll do me.

I am opposed to any kind of world government and world religion, no matter how benevolent it claims to be.

wonderful.. you probably won't be around to see it anyway so why worry about it? and i never claimed world government, that's just how you were programmed to react to the thought of a globally united mankind.

I am on the side of the people, and the Great Spirit that created men to be free and to live in peace with nature, free of all chains.

In order to submit only to the Great Spirit and live peacefully in the Utopia the Great spirit designed.

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